waterproofing shower tiles

These products are unusual because they are some of the very few products in the industry that have a cement coating on their surface to improve mortar and tile bonding. I am a mason and had planned on doing the shower pan the old school way until my plumber suggested use of the Preslope. Great work and check out Itile Bathrooms NT in Darwin, Australia for bathroom renovation specialist services. Manufacturers introduced new shower tile waterproofing systems in the late 80s. Thanks for your help. Durock is a great tile backer board. Dont have a warm fuzzy feeling after seeing it peel. This is a big concern for me since this could allow water vapor to enter the stud cavity. Im currently at a loss on how to best approach this dilemma. Hello, my name is Brennan and I am currently undertaking a bathroom renovation in the Okanagan. And this method is still used today by installers that subscribe to the if it aint broke, no need to fix it school of thought. With joints and screws sealed with urethane rather than patches adhered with thinset, and no washers required, the GoBoard system seems it would be easier and less expensive to install than its competitors. Wedi has a whole range of foam shower bases, backer board panels, benches, niches and thicker building panels. We will be additionally sealing all the plank seams as they are installed. Its more likely that you have a traditional mortar base with a rubber membrane beneath. A vapor retarder can only limit the amount of moisture that can pass through it, not completely eliminate it. Make sure your contractor follows the installation instructions for these products. Durock also makes foam tile backer board panels, benches, and ramps. Wed like to remove the drop and raise it, so the bathroom ceiling is all the same height. This was considered a water in / water out system. Schluter Kerdi Shower Kit, on Amazon.com,includes a 2 inches (50.8 mm) PVC flange, a stainless steel grate, and joint sealant. What you SHOULD NOT DO is assume that since one waterproofing strategy for the shower base is good, than two strategies will be even better. These will serve to connect the original slab to the new concrete youll be placing. 3. Almost all the sheet waterproofing brands sell valve and pipe seals (Durock, Mapei, Wedi etc. but I would not try it myself. If so, what about seam sealing the durock? First of all, NEVER use standard gypsum wallboard on the curb or walls of your shower. This is my next complaint about the bare foam shower base products. I previously had a fiberglass shower/tub combo that I just tore out. My question is, is it okay to mix and match these various membrane waterproofing systems? This will also help to dry the moisture from the mortar base if water has collected on the inside of the rubber base liner (if there is one). This is the easiest and cheapest option among the new waterproofing systems, which can be applied to any surfaces that come into contact with water or moisture. Any vapor retarder will only limit the amount of moisture that can pass through it, not eliminate it. I am replacing tub/shower with a walk in shower/steam room, using NobleSeal TS on thin bed mortar floor. Originally there was the vapour barrier over the studs and insulation, with cement board on top with tile applied to it. Comment * document.getElementById("comment").setAttribute( "id", "a78275f884a732d68744573a77ec4c09" );document.getElementById("j1bf4a70f6").setAttribute( "id", "comment" ); Join our Mailing list for blog and product updates, Click the Ad link below to leave the Redblock site and continue to Amazon.com, Click the Ad link below to leave the Redblock site and continue to Amazon.comWeldbond Universal Adhesive, Schluter Kerdi Waterproofing Membrane Roll, Noble ValueSeal Waterproofing Membrane Roll, Redgard Waterproofing by CUSTOM BLDG PRODUCTS. Most professionals and DIYers use a roller and brush. After getting it removed I realized that I have 5/8 Type X drywall behind one of the side which is there as a fire barrier which I cant remove. Thanks to the design of a sheet membrane, the wet room is ready to tile as soon as the membrane is installed! This means that the surface is tile ready without any additional membrane attachment required (as with Schluter, Durock shower bases). If you dont have the patience for insulation or simply think tiles are impervious, think twice! Moisture is an issue that threatens not only our homes but also our health on a variety of different levels. Ive seen smilar online posts indicating it is ok if it stays on the wall and peeling is different than the forces the tile will generate. Now we are torn. I am considering using corrugated metal on my shower walls instead of tile (its a thing!) If they are not available, I will choose to lay a mortar base instead. Thank you for your comment and your compliment! If you want to improve the perm rating of your Redgard installation, you should simply apply another coat. This makes it one of the better shower waterproofing membranes in the industry. Yes, I would suggest that you should indeed apply two complete coats of RedGard in order to establish an adequate perm rating. Any recommendations would be great. Its not a huge issue but as I say in my post, sheet membranes are more reliable and less prone to install error in my opinion. You should probably inquire with the manufacturer of your panels to see if they have a better attachment method than the Australian one does. An exterior wall shower with ourGlossy Gold Hexagon Glass Mosaic Tile will be as efficient as possible with these shower waterproofing methods! You may think that a small amount of water vapor here might be OK because theres a waterproofing membrane protecting the wall from moisture penetration, but it kind of defeats the purpose of using a product like corrugated roofing (unless you are saving a bunch of money). A much cheaper way to extend one of these bases is with dry pack mortar. I will be listing a few of my favorite sheet membrane products in order of their perm rating, starting from the lowest (least permeable) to the highest. The fasteners are later covered with adhesive or a small piece of membrane to maintain membrane integrity. This is often the result of a crack in the concrete floor beneath the tile. It makes some sense that vinyl floor planks could be used to create a waterproof shower wall, however I think it would be naive to assume that there was no risk to this install. When it comes to bathroom renovations, homeowners prefer to install tile for showers and bathtub surrounds. The shower base could also be irreparably damaged. TIA!! That means that your waterproofing may be all good. I suppose it would just need to be something that the adhesive will stick to. After your research, if youre still not comfortable tackling this kind of job, I would suggest you hire a professional to install your mortar base for you. Yes, I am calling the foam shower base revolutionary because of all the major problems that it solves in the modern shower. Thanks again! The impeccable waterproofing solution has 15 years of warranty from Schluter Systems if installed correctly. At the time, tile and grout were considered to be relatively impermeable to water so it was not considered to be a problem. The foam shower base simply bonds to the unaltered subfloor with thin-set tiling mortar. While there are solutions to all of the above problems after the fact - like an exterminator to rid your property of pest infestations, or dehumidifying to help with the health risks of breathing in mold - its always a better idea to prevent moisture issues before they start. Redgard has a perm rating of .36 when applied according to the application instructions. As you indicated, its important not to mess with the fire wall but you can attach some backer board over the Type X wall board if you use a stud finder to mark the studs and buy some longer backer board screws. I never want to go less than 2 on any section of the mortar bed (with reinforcement) but there are guys that go thinner. Before applying the waterproofing membrane, tape the backer board seams and cover with a very thin layer of thinset (no bumps!). Its not a terrible idea to use Kerdiboard (I would use Wediboard instead) but if he plans to waterproof the corners with a liquid membrane instead of Kerdiband, I would fiber tape the corners first. Thanks so much for your informative post. I have not used the Proflex waterproofing membrane products so I cant really comment on how they install, or how effective they are. I also think its a little overkill. If you have completed or are planning to complete a shower remodel, youve likely wondered about shower waterproofing. Alternatively, could I just fill the hole in the concrete with gravel and put a sheet of plywood down before putting down the shower pan? And if by some small chance you do have an undertile membrane, it was obviously installed improperly and will be impossible to repair just by removing the shower base tiles. The tile/ tub margin is then sealed with regular silicon after grouting. 3. I know theres a lot of competing factors that go in to deciding how to proceed, but I do very much appreciate how well you distill the information to make easier for us understand. After talking with folks and doing some research, weve decided to go with pressed aluminum panels for shower walls and an enameled metal shower base (Bootz showercast). This movement can occur at the margins between two adjoining backer board panels, or most often in the corners where the wall meets the floor, and where the back wall meets the side walls. Or, will replacing only the floor tiles (i.e., not the three walls), along with undertile waterproofing membrane, solve the issue? They sent an epoxy mixture to adhere the tiles to the shower base. I saw the comment/response about prefab shower bases, that you didnt recommend a moisture barrier underneath. So basically the shower pan will be 3/4 subfloor, Schluter preformed bed pan, then tile. After reading about all the problems that can and do happen with outside shower walls, I think most of you would guess that it is always a risky move to install a shower niche in an outside shower wall. thank you. Could one use a liquid membrane over seams instead of tape? I would recommend you first remove any vapor retarder plastic sheet or felt from the stud surface on all the outside shower walls. There are plenty of great membranes to choose from out there. While it has benefits over the traditional shower pan liner, hot mop is considered another old school method! Before the waterproofing membrane systems were developed, there wasnt really any consistently applied waterproofing strategies for the shower walls except for the shower pan liner which usually ran up the wall only about 1 above the shower base. You dont necessarily need to get this brand but the technique is sound. In this case I would generally recommend one of the sheet membranes with the higher perm ratings. Im getting ready to remodel my master bathroom? But I should also say that even if you install all the same shower system components, a successful warrantee claim of this kind is very difficult if things go sideways. This is especially true for the grout between tiles, which is a permeable material. Its also engineered for shower walls and floors. Hand slope a mortar pan (I want to use the Flo fx drain flange) (ok for the mortar bed to contact the wall backer (which goes down to the slab) right?) They use this stuff in industrial water systems, and it is safe in drinking water. And while bulk water can sometimes evaporate and exit via the air handling systems, any remaining liquid also creates the perfect condition for mold and mildew to grow. Will this be a good solution? I would imagine that they would do a pretty good job in a high moisture environment like the shower as well. ), but theyre a bit harder to find. Sir, I am one of the minority that is not going to tile my shower, (wife hates tile). With any liquid membrane I always recommend taping the corners. You didnt think I was going to leave it at that , did you? Liquid membranes can be problematic if not applied perfectly. I wish you the best of luck with it! You can just use the Wedi joint sealant and sealing tape on these corners as well. 36 seems to be most common. I just wanted to clarify that the leaky shower is due to a ruptured shower mixer. Sheet membranes are exactly cut to size, avoiding any inadvertent gaps in the seal that may result in painting on a liquid membrane. that all waterproofing materials fall into. This is an interesting and surprisingly complex waterproofing question. We are getting our shower rebuilt. Will aluminum function in the same water tight way as stainless? The result was always a rank, toxic smell from the bi-products of rubber and cement breaking down, and mold.. lots of mold. Moisture transmission is what you need to be concerned about when considering shower wall surface materials. However, thats not always the case! Stone, Ceramic or Porcelain Shower Tile Which is Best? Also no VOC. Thanks for your article. This was the flaw that ultimately caused all showers built in that era to fail regardless of the quality of the installation. But if you are not in a position to do this, you could consider altering the traditional clamping drain with an adapter kit that would allow it to be compatible with the Schluter Kerdi sheet membrane (described in the link above). Maybe the problem lies in your definition of proper adhesion. In other words I would need a bit more experience working with it to make any comments about it. Thank you (from people too long without a shower now). To avoid the many problems associated with this backwards pan assembly, I would MAKE CERTAIN that your installer uses the install method in this video. I applaud your innovation. And they also seem to put a bit more effort into reinforcing the upper (tile bonding) layer than other pan manufacturers and that can only be a good thing to reduce point source compression risk. But that is assuming the powder coated color finish stays attached to the aluminum (only time will tell). Even with the proper pre-slope below the liner, much of the water adhered to the porous mortar base so it always stayed significantly hydrated. I dont really have a favorite brand but I have used several of the Mapei mortars and Schluter All-Set. What is not often recognized is that the mortar used to attach this membrane does not actually adhere to it. A way to combat this would be to increase the thickness of the wall so more insulation can be installed behind the niche, but this is often not a practical option. To keep the durock even with the adjoining drywall. Foam shower bases (or shower pans) are sold separately or as part of a shower kit that contains several shower waterproofing components. You dont want to take any chances. A better idea is would be to get your contractor to roll on another layer of RedGard if you wanted the additional protection. Red guard is there so it should be sealed up. Aquadefense has a perm rating of <.5 according to the manufacturer which is intentional because they engineered it to meet the requirements for steam shower waterproofing membranes (Procedure E of ASTM E96). I must give you credit for an innovative solution..but. I am installing a shower in a converted school bus. We have yet to rip out the current shower so not completely sure of the condition of the concrete slab under there but it was new construction 15 years ago so hopefully in good shape as the is the slab area under the old tub/new shower space. Good luck with your investigation, and your project! I really didnt have the space to mention every type of waterproofing product so I left out a few . For example, because the tiling/ mounting flange is attached firmly to the wall studs, these bases will definitely crack if your subfloor deflects even a tiny amount.. so make sure the subfloor under the pan is rock solid! I will explain the significance of perm ratings for different shower installations a little later when I give you my opinion and recommendations. On the walls- Some building codes also require these vapor retarder membranes to be installed between the studs and the backer board on outside facing walls, to limit moisture transfer into the framing in wet rooms. Thanks for this post. Thanks for all your information. The most effective and reliable solution is a separate waterproofing membrane on primed shower walls before tiling. or not? Do not use mastic for your shower walls as it is meant for damp places at best, not where you will have a mini water park. Im looking at the Prova brand, wondering if you have any thoughts on their products? Steve, thank you for sharing a plethora of knowledge and pro-tips. We will remove the existing tub/shower combo from the 80s, and plan to replace it with a walk in shower. If you read my overview of foam shower base features above, you will recall that I mentioned only two products that have a cement layer bonded to their surface. Eliminate all ambiguity and uncertainty by waterproofing shower walls before tiling using one of the solutions in this guide. This base is fixed to the subfloor via unmodified thinset mortar (explained in Kerdi membrane section). These components often include a foam shower curb that is secured and waterproofed in the same way as the base. Once the pan is figured out, is it possible to use standard durock on the walls, adhere/seal the first sheet where it meets the pan, taping the seams, and finally 3 coats of red guard? Because the shower floor and shower walls are exposed to lots of moisture and wide temperature changes, this is also a place where grout line cracking can occur. Now, no significant moisture makes it into the base material so there is no concern about rotting and molding of the mortar as well as the continuous expansion and contraction of the baseassembly. So options are to get a standard 36w and extent to 42 if you think my method of redguarding the extensikn works, trimming the 44 hydro ban down to 42 or worst case splurging on the wedi. Mortar is significantly hydrated, eventually breaks down, and mold starts to grow. This is one of the bare foam bases that I referred to in my post. In this post Ill explain everything you need to know about shower tile backer boards so you can decide which one is best for yourRead More DIY Guide to Choosing and Installing Shower Tile Backer Board. Were skilled DIYers, but this is our first bathroom reno. A simple rule to use is to remove the vapor barrier plastic from the stud face in all areas where your undertile waterproofing membrane will be applied.

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